One of the online forums of Nirmukta ran a debate on the issue of 'Arranged Marriage' system in India with the title 'Say NO to arranged marriage'
I am not so sure if there was an emphasis on the word 'No'. I think that there should be one. Since my own marriage was an 'arranged' one, it was with some embarrassment, guilt and other compunctions that I more or less read thru the 4 pages of points and counter-points in that debate.
I cannot excuse myself for the missed opportunity of not practicing my beliefs because that was 15 years ago and I was not radical enough when it was the best time to be. In my own close family circle there were a few instances of inter-caste marriage with my own sister's being one of those. The point here is not to go into my own dilemmas or lack of courage, of which on hindsight there is no way to deny.
Also the fact that I have no complaints or regrets from my current personal relationship is not a good enough reason to support this very peculiar, unfair and unjust system of organizing heterosexual relationships.
It is peculiar since it seems to be very much confined to Indian and subcontinental culture.
It is unfair since the system and method of organizing it denies or severely restricts the freedom of the main parties to this relationship, the prospective wife and man. Even modern variants of this match making arrangement in India are restrictive since all the inter-mediation is done by peers or elders and the interference and management of parties other then the main two affected people is all too obvious to the impartial and disinterested observer. The post match-making deal sweeteners like the engagement and pre-marriage courtship are devices overseen by elders and peers and managed as to its duration and procedural detail. Then its culmination in a heavily ritualistic marriage ceremony betrays the true designs of all these cosmetic facelifts to the really feudalistic practice of 'arranging' a union that can very well be done on their own by mature adults.
According to V. V. Prakasa Rao and quoting from the reference of this site, arranged marriages purportedly serve these six functions in the Indian community:
(1) helps maintain the social satisfaction system in the society;
(2) gives parents control, over family members;
(3) enhances the chances to preserve and continue the ancestral lineage;
(4) provides an opportunity to strengthen the kinship group;
(5) allows the consolidation and extension of family property;
(6) enables the elders to preserve the principle of endogamy.
Some critical analysis of these above objectives will serve to expose them as anachronistic, regressive and antithetical to individual choice. The objectives and goals of the family, society and group override those of individual rights and freedom. This is barely disguised feudalism.
It is terribly unjust since in the real world of Indian society and social relations, it perpetuates caste-based endogamy and thus makes the grip and influence of casteism more vicious and entrenched.
This by itself is the biggest and greatest accusation against the Indian arranged/forced marriage system and in my opinion the critical reason why it needs to be staunchly opposed and vigorously campaigned against. The Indian marriage system is greatest cause of the perpetuation of the scourge of casteism and will continue to undercut and subvert all legislative and reformative effort at combating the menace of casteism.
It is really useless to argue or claim that most of us are opposed to casteism, or ideologically aloof from it, when the very foundation of our conjugal life is grounded and rooted in caste identity and consciousness. In fact the entirety of Indian culture suffers from the sickness and hangover of caste consciousness.
We cannot combat a wrong or injustice, unless we have an awareness or realization of it. The oppressive, intrusive and divisive nature of the Indian arranged marriage system or institution is disguised just like other aspects of Indian culture like patriarchy and misogyny. It will take some effort, insight and greater probing of many of its procedures to understand and realize the institutionalized nature of this bizarre match making and marriage system.
That is why it seems to be not unusual that there is opposition to the caste system and its fallout of discrimination, but very little or no opposition to the arranged marriage system which serves as the backbone of casteism. Without attacking or breaking this backbone, it is really amazing that Indian progressive intellectuals and well-wishers entertain visions of demolishing caste system in India.
The other concept of violation and infringement that results from this arranged marriage system is subversion, subjugation and manipulation of individual will, choice and freedom, but which is difficult to wrap one's head around it especially with the recent trends that reveal a neo-liberal morphing of the marriage system and its market place.
Once we realize that the overwhelming majority of marriages in India are 'arranged' and that too in a population of more than billion people, one would realize what one is up against. The intractability of this problem hits you in the face, if you are a liberal and a progressive. According to UNICEF, this marriage system arranged or rather forced by Indian patriarchal system makes up 90 percent of marriages in India.
According to this other source, as recently as 2005, 95% of all current Indian marriages are arranged, either through child marriages or family /friend arrangement.
Without a context, it will not help to argue that 55-60% of all marriages in the world are arranged. I am not certain whether the Indian number is pushing up the global average of arranged marriage or match-making. I do not know how marriages are arranged elsewhere in the world, but I do fairly well know how the Indian match-making arrangement works and needless to say it is very different from and more discriminatory of gender relations than the rest of the world. Though dowry or extortion by groom's side in the name of custom did not figure high in the assessment of Indian arranged marriage system in that blog, it is still very much a part of it and continues even today. There are deaths/killings of women even today in cities and villages over dowry disputes.
As mentioned earlier the main factor that distinguishes Indian marriage system from other global marriage system is that the whole process begins and ends with caste identification. The existence and proliferation of caste-based or caste-specific matrimonial sites and pamphlets and marriage bureaus show that caste identity is woven into this very process and is almost inseparable from it. This process goes in to the lowest and most minute part of the Indian/Hindu caste hierarchy down to the sub-caste level. Some upper caste marriages delve down to the level of matching the compatibility of gotras (sub-caste). The process is so divisive that in the case of South Indian Brahmins, potential matches are filtered out to retain the purity of region (North vs South Tamilian or Coastal vs non-Coastal) and linguistic dialects.
One should not get deceived by the red herring of horoscope matching which looks like an important and integral part of the arranged marriage system. Horoscope matching is a formality more than a necessity or pivotal aspect of the formal match making process. The mechanism of horoscopes is varied and mostly loose and changeable and its rigor depends upon how well other attributes of the match making process, particularly caste compatibility and the financial and social expectations of the male's family are met. Especially in North India, if caste equation and dowry demands fall into place, horoscope matching standards get tailored or diluted.
The system of Indian match making needs more examination and analysis to expose the true nature of its being an arrangement of force and social manipulation of individual will and choice to serve the demands of a neo-feudal social order and a tool of reinforcing and sustaining casteism.
This is a very long and complex subject but needs to be observed and studied from the aspect of how the mechanism of marriage system serves to infringe individual choice and freedom and is actually voilative of the guiding principles of the Indian Constitution.
I am not so sure if there was an emphasis on the word 'No'. I think that there should be one. Since my own marriage was an 'arranged' one, it was with some embarrassment, guilt and other compunctions that I more or less read thru the 4 pages of points and counter-points in that debate.
I cannot excuse myself for the missed opportunity of not practicing my beliefs because that was 15 years ago and I was not radical enough when it was the best time to be. In my own close family circle there were a few instances of inter-caste marriage with my own sister's being one of those. The point here is not to go into my own dilemmas or lack of courage, of which on hindsight there is no way to deny.
Also the fact that I have no complaints or regrets from my current personal relationship is not a good enough reason to support this very peculiar, unfair and unjust system of organizing heterosexual relationships.
It is peculiar since it seems to be very much confined to Indian and subcontinental culture.
It is unfair since the system and method of organizing it denies or severely restricts the freedom of the main parties to this relationship, the prospective wife and man. Even modern variants of this match making arrangement in India are restrictive since all the inter-mediation is done by peers or elders and the interference and management of parties other then the main two affected people is all too obvious to the impartial and disinterested observer. The post match-making deal sweeteners like the engagement and pre-marriage courtship are devices overseen by elders and peers and managed as to its duration and procedural detail. Then its culmination in a heavily ritualistic marriage ceremony betrays the true designs of all these cosmetic facelifts to the really feudalistic practice of 'arranging' a union that can very well be done on their own by mature adults.
According to V. V. Prakasa Rao and quoting from the reference of this site, arranged marriages purportedly serve these six functions in the Indian community:
(1) helps maintain the social satisfaction system in the society;
(2) gives parents control, over family members;
(3) enhances the chances to preserve and continue the ancestral lineage;
(4) provides an opportunity to strengthen the kinship group;
(5) allows the consolidation and extension of family property;
(6) enables the elders to preserve the principle of endogamy.
Some critical analysis of these above objectives will serve to expose them as anachronistic, regressive and antithetical to individual choice. The objectives and goals of the family, society and group override those of individual rights and freedom. This is barely disguised feudalism.
It is terribly unjust since in the real world of Indian society and social relations, it perpetuates caste-based endogamy and thus makes the grip and influence of casteism more vicious and entrenched.
This by itself is the biggest and greatest accusation against the Indian arranged/forced marriage system and in my opinion the critical reason why it needs to be staunchly opposed and vigorously campaigned against. The Indian marriage system is greatest cause of the perpetuation of the scourge of casteism and will continue to undercut and subvert all legislative and reformative effort at combating the menace of casteism.
It is really useless to argue or claim that most of us are opposed to casteism, or ideologically aloof from it, when the very foundation of our conjugal life is grounded and rooted in caste identity and consciousness. In fact the entirety of Indian culture suffers from the sickness and hangover of caste consciousness.
We cannot combat a wrong or injustice, unless we have an awareness or realization of it. The oppressive, intrusive and divisive nature of the Indian arranged marriage system or institution is disguised just like other aspects of Indian culture like patriarchy and misogyny. It will take some effort, insight and greater probing of many of its procedures to understand and realize the institutionalized nature of this bizarre match making and marriage system.
That is why it seems to be not unusual that there is opposition to the caste system and its fallout of discrimination, but very little or no opposition to the arranged marriage system which serves as the backbone of casteism. Without attacking or breaking this backbone, it is really amazing that Indian progressive intellectuals and well-wishers entertain visions of demolishing caste system in India.
The other concept of violation and infringement that results from this arranged marriage system is subversion, subjugation and manipulation of individual will, choice and freedom, but which is difficult to wrap one's head around it especially with the recent trends that reveal a neo-liberal morphing of the marriage system and its market place.
Once we realize that the overwhelming majority of marriages in India are 'arranged' and that too in a population of more than billion people, one would realize what one is up against. The intractability of this problem hits you in the face, if you are a liberal and a progressive. According to UNICEF, this marriage system arranged or rather forced by Indian patriarchal system makes up 90 percent of marriages in India.
According to this other source, as recently as 2005, 95% of all current Indian marriages are arranged, either through child marriages or family /friend arrangement.
Without a context, it will not help to argue that 55-60% of all marriages in the world are arranged. I am not certain whether the Indian number is pushing up the global average of arranged marriage or match-making. I do not know how marriages are arranged elsewhere in the world, but I do fairly well know how the Indian match-making arrangement works and needless to say it is very different from and more discriminatory of gender relations than the rest of the world. Though dowry or extortion by groom's side in the name of custom did not figure high in the assessment of Indian arranged marriage system in that blog, it is still very much a part of it and continues even today. There are deaths/killings of women even today in cities and villages over dowry disputes.
As mentioned earlier the main factor that distinguishes Indian marriage system from other global marriage system is that the whole process begins and ends with caste identification. The existence and proliferation of caste-based or caste-specific matrimonial sites and pamphlets and marriage bureaus show that caste identity is woven into this very process and is almost inseparable from it. This process goes in to the lowest and most minute part of the Indian/Hindu caste hierarchy down to the sub-caste level. Some upper caste marriages delve down to the level of matching the compatibility of gotras (sub-caste). The process is so divisive that in the case of South Indian Brahmins, potential matches are filtered out to retain the purity of region (North vs South Tamilian or Coastal vs non-Coastal) and linguistic dialects.
One should not get deceived by the red herring of horoscope matching which looks like an important and integral part of the arranged marriage system. Horoscope matching is a formality more than a necessity or pivotal aspect of the formal match making process. The mechanism of horoscopes is varied and mostly loose and changeable and its rigor depends upon how well other attributes of the match making process, particularly caste compatibility and the financial and social expectations of the male's family are met. Especially in North India, if caste equation and dowry demands fall into place, horoscope matching standards get tailored or diluted.
The system of Indian match making needs more examination and analysis to expose the true nature of its being an arrangement of force and social manipulation of individual will and choice to serve the demands of a neo-feudal social order and a tool of reinforcing and sustaining casteism.
This is a very long and complex subject but needs to be observed and studied from the aspect of how the mechanism of marriage system serves to infringe individual choice and freedom and is actually voilative of the guiding principles of the Indian Constitution.
'Embarrassment, guilt and compunctions' though natural may not exactly be called for for someone willing to withstand unremitting re-examination of a personal lifestyle choice. It is not as personal for some of the more radical commenters for whom marriage of any sort is not exactly imminent, and that can be a reason why they can 'afford' to sound more radical. Here is some more radicalism, relaxing even more assumptions, in another forum thread: http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Endogamy
ReplyDeleteThanks for that link....I will go thru and try to share my reactions on it. I do appreciate your points about the limits to radicalism and why some few can afford the luxury of sounding very radical than others.
DeleteI am absolutely going to get an arranged marriage and am thankful that I live in a culture that offers it.
ReplyDeleteI am absolutely ugly. This isn't self-deprecation, it's plain and simply the empirical truth. I am also the sufferer of a medical condition that limits how much I can move each day and thus cannot get much exercise in to get a good body-- this coming from someone who was an athlete before the onset of his condition. I was also a nerd for most of my life and, despite my best efforts, never learned those social skills by which to meet women.
I encourage you to watch a Discovery Channel special called "The Science of Sex Appeal." In a "state of nature--" to borrow the term of the social contract philosophers-- it is frequently observed that attractive mates pair with attractive mates and unattractive mates pair with unattractive ones.
As they did, on a scale of 1-10, I will rate myself a 3 on the attractiveness scale. This means that if I somehow meet a 1,2,3, or 4, I have a chance of pair-bonding with them. But this is not a given even if I meet them. 1-4s are also less likely to "put themselves out there." And I have no time to devote all my energies to the pursuit of a wife. I'm trying to finish my postdoc and get a job.
The fact is, marriage is inherently discriminatory. In the state of nature, it is discriminatory against ugly people like me. Even you, who got the arranged marriage, probably married within your income level. Would you want your children to marry someone who earned minimum wage? Or what about someone who could only speak Yoruba, a tribal African language? Marriage as you prescribe it also contains inequality-- excluding people outside your income group to perpetuate wealth disparity, or excluding people who can't speak English to perpetuate wealth disparity since there is a correlation between English skills and wealth.
I care about myself and maximizing my happiness. So I'm definitely going for an arranged marriage because I want to find a wife. And I want a wife I know something about, so I'm definitely going to ask my parents to ask family friends. If their friends are all Marwaris, so be it-- I don't really care. I don't need high and mighty people like you telling me how to live my life, thank you very much.
I wish you all the best in your endeavor. Given your circumstances and situation, your choice is understandable and is to be respected.
DeleteI also agree with some of your points relating to certain discriminatory aspects of the contract or arrangement of marriage. The article did not oppose the institution of marriage or even the device of arrangement. The objection and opposition was to the traditional Indian method that compromises individual choice and furthers caste based endogamy. There are other evils like dowry and domination of patriarchal system associated with this tradition of arranging marriage.
The point that was left unsaid in the post was that Indian society not only preserves the restrictive nature of marriage arrangement, but also ostracizes and outcasts people who would like of marry on their own accord. Some castes and communities persecute and even kill people who do not follow the writ of arranged marriage system.
Is there any evidence beyond the anecdotelal ones that shows that arranged marriage system is better than the open market system in finding match for people who fall in the lower end of the 1-10 scale?
DeleteIn a society where arranged marriage system is the norm it might be difficult to switch over to the open market system. The problem (people in the lower end of the 1-10 scale finding it difficult to find a match) might be due to the difficulty in making this switch and because of any flaw in the open market system.
But I agree with you marriage (arranged or otherwise) is discriminatory. A post by Arvind in the nirmukta.net link in an earlier post discusses this with good references.
** The problem (people in the lower end of the 1-10 scale finding it difficult to find a match) might be due to the difficulty in making this switch and because of any flaw in the open market system.**
DeleteTypo there in my previous post. It should be.
The problem (people in the lower end of the 1-10 scale finding it difficult to find a match) might be due to the difficulty in making this switch and *not* because of any flaw in the open market system.
Where there is 'I' there is ‘Ego’.
ReplyDeleteWhere there is 'Ego' there is 'Fear'.
Where there is ‘Fear’ there is ‘Doubt'.
Where there is 'Doubt' there is 'Failure'.
Where there is 'Failure' there 'Hard Work' is required.
Where there is ' Hard Work' there is 'Honesty'.
Where there is 'Honesty' there is 'Hope'.
Where there is 'Hope' there is 'Light'.
Where there is 'Light' there is 'Faith'.
Where there is 'Faith' there is 'Belief'.
Where there is 'Belief' it comes from 'Self Experience'.
This 'Self Experience' leads to 'Self Realization'.
Where there is ‘Self Realization’ there is ‘Sat Chit Anand or Pure Eternal Happiness’ .
Where there is ‘Sat Chit Anand’ there is no ‘I’.
Where there is no ‘I’
There is no ‘Ego’ ,’Fear’, ‘Doubt’ , ‘Failure’, ’Hard Work’, ‘Honesty’, ‘Hope’, ‘Light’, ‘Faith’, ‘Belief’ or the exact opposites of all these .
There is only ‘Sat Chit Anand’.
This is the closest any one can come to describing ‘HIM’ relatively,for further to this there is only ‘IS’ & nothing else !
This ‘IS’ is the ‘ROOT’ of our root .
The ‘ESSENSE’ of our essence .
The infinitesimal ‘BEGINNING’ of that ‘SINGULARITY’ which is unbegun .
It is Imperishable & Unborn,
It transcends ‘Time’ & ‘Space’.
It is ‘Infinite’ and manifests & expresses itself in infinite ways.
This is referred to as …..
‘Atman’,‘Paramatman’ ,‘Brahma’,’Parabrama’, ॐ’,’Allah’,’Almighty’.
Religions will come & go , rise & fall ! but the above eternal truth will remain unchanged .When it is day in India , its night in America .One can’t argue over this matter as to who is right ?because it is a fact. For an Indian it’s a day & for an American it’s a night , both are right in their limited knowledge !
A Banyan tree which gives shade to people has many names in various languages .
Some call it ‘Bargad ‘, some ‘Bor’ in Hindi . Its called ‘Ala’ in Tamil ,’Petal’ in Malyalam & ‘Mart’ or ‘Pedda-mari’ in Telugu .Its biological name is ‘Ficus Benghalensists’. Do all these names change its inherent properties ?
It’s a shame when one talks about other ‘religions’ in derogatory terms. Its more so when a person born and brought up in Vedic culture speaks or writes about the culture in derogatory terms just to please some Western thinkers , or act as a modern person who laughs & ridicules India just to gain their social acceptance . Today its becoming a fad among the so called Wesetrn Indians ( foreigners immigrated or born abroad ) to do Veda /Purana bashing without really going deeply & trying to understand the vedantic philosophy .Mr. Ranganath R has a very good command over English which is very clear from his writing.But unfortunately ( may be even after being a avid reader of subjects on which he writes his critiques ) doesn’t seem to have made much effort to really understand Vedantantic philosophy in terms of scientific knowledge hidden in in it nor in terms of religious vectors.Hence his language feels hollow without much weight & substance .He is just playing to the gallery & having some fun .
His comments seem to stem out of his inadvertent desires to poke at all that is Indian (past & current Indian culture , writings , traditions etc. ) in nature .I have used the word ‘seem’ as it is possible that my minimal knowledge about him may have led to this belief and is purely ‘allegorical’ to use his own term & may be wrong.
So the best thing is to each his own belief . Be Blessed , Live Life & Prosper .
Ranganath,
DeleteI noticed that you now require your approval before comments get published on your blog. It is a good development. But why did the trolling comment with the time stamp October 28, 2013 at 5:04 AM get past your approval.
I can not tell you how to run your blog. But just a suggestion. You should not give space to these trolls.
Capt.
DeleteThanks for your comments. And your suggestions are welcome. Regarding that irrelevant comment that I allowed I wanted to edit it and only display some parts of it. Somehow it did not work and I ended up letting the whole thing thru.
I will try to be more watchful with these trolls.
My few cents about marriage.
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it marriage (arranged or otherwise) and endogamy go hand in hand, ie people who are similar to each other in terms of physical attractiveness, wealth, income potential, and social status marry each other. Ofcourse there will be a little bit of give and take in these attributes before a match (arranged or otherwise) is made.
Having said that I do have deep revulsion to the concept of arranged marriage. I have been trying to find out why for a while. It now seems to me that it is not the concept of arranged marriage that bothers me, it is rather the control family (and society in general) has over the lives of individuals that bothers me. It is this control that is the disease and arranged marriage is just one of the symptoms.
I have also noticed that people in forums like this spend too much time discussing and debating arranged marriage but not on other important issues like divorce. And if divorce is discussed at all it is always discussed in a negative sense. This IMO is another symptom of the suffocating control the society has over individuals. Even the legal system in India does not allow no fault divorces. Seems lot of progress needs to be made in India in matters related to marriage.