Continuing Hindu revisionist idiocy on the 'connection' between Vedanta and Quantum Physics

As I have noted earlier in my post on contemporary Hindu revisionism, Hindu intelligentsia cannot resist the itch for claiming credit on behalf of their ancient scriptures, especially Vedas and Upanishads as repositories of science and modern knowledge. While they work hard to trace and read by hook or by crook, theories of big bang and cosmology in the Vedas, the Upanishads are the mining field or quarry for more advanced theories. The lookout for the crack in the door of scientific theories is always on by Hindu theorists whenever some theory of physics gains popularity in the media.

It seems like quantum physics and mechanics leave enough cracks in the door for idealists to postulate the end of particle physics. Once idealism gains backdoor entry through muddling of scientific concepts, Hindu revisionism has all the time in the world to run riot with their comparisons of Vedanta with Quantum Mechanics (QM).

When my blog post on Upanishads and apologetic was published on Nirmukta, it was not surprising that there was a comment-response like this, where there were gems of idiocy like these

• "I’ve read advaitha philosophy and very much impressed. The “aham brahmasmi” or “Jeevo brahmaiva naapara” has many levels of thought than we presume."

• "That means human consciousness(jeevatma) and universal consciousness ( paramatma) are not different. This is analogous to waves in ocean. All jeevatma are like waves in ocean but it is ultimately ocean itself. 

• "You’d have already read elsewhere that all modern day scientists of quantum mechanics have tried to study about this consciousness and all of them are admirers of the upanishads philosophy."

I tried an initial response to the above kind of nonsense:

Here is an article on Scientific American about recent advances in understanding the uncertainties around quantum physics/mechanics (famous or notorious Heisenberg uncertainty principle or the Copenhagen interpretation)


One of the clues to why and how Vedanta has nothing even close to Quantum mechanics is that the latter field is constantly changing and updating its hypotheses in the light of new observations and experiments.

Then quantum mechanics has:

• practical uses in things subatomic and its mathematical implications and equations can be used in communications and other other technologies which rely on transmission/manipulation of attributes like sound, waves, particles etc.
• the ability to define terms and concepts like photons, electrons,bosons etc.
• rules/definitions for measurement of wave collapse, exact position of a particle etc.

On the other hand, Brahman and Paramatman are static concepts and there is no body or theory of meaningful knowledge around them. Universal Consciousness is just a term with a thousand or more interpretations. Where and what are the rules for its measurability?.

Quantum mechanics may be hard to understand because of its complexity, but Vedanta does not make sense because its premises are not clear and its claims are not verifiable. A word pile cannot become a theory or even a meaningful concept just because of its wordiness or commentaries or cult following

When you cannot or do not understand Paramatman, what is your basis for comparing it to a wave. And what kind of wave??

 Then that led to this sort of ultimate revisionist idiocy from that commenter

"I didn’t say that quantum menchanics is written in vedas/upanishads. But for sure, Upanishads have inspired and influenced all of them and that resulted in the revolutionary quantum mechanics. Can you disagree with that ?"

To which I responded thus:

While I note that Ashwin responded to this incredulous statement, I would like to add that this represents a peculiar species of vanity and conceit about ancient Indian scriptures found among Hindu nationalists. There are quite a few fallacies that combine to bring out the effect of this kind of extravagant claim about the scientific/advanced content in religious texts. Some of the notable fallacies and rhetorical tricks can be grouped thus:

• Not to admit the primary and predominantly religious nature and content of these scriptures/epics and ascribe to them other properties and attributes like science, medicine, technology in addition to spirituality and mysticism.

• Keeping the definitions and terms of spirituality and mysticism sufficiently and generously vague, so that any weakness/incoherence/contradiction or gaps in them can be bypassed or skirted around.

• After any important scientific discovery or advance or theory has gained mainstream acceptance or currency, circle back into the Vedas/Upanishads and find some vague or nebulous verse that can be retrofitted into terms of current scientific knowledge. There are para-normalists doing this with the verses of Nostradamus and Christian fundamentalists with the Bible Code of Prophecy. I am sure Mahesh will find a place among these worthies!!!

• Making something sound like a verification or justification of a prediction, when actually no prediction was made in the first place. No predictions about Quantum Mechanics were made by any Acharayas/Swamis or Vivekananda in the late 19th or early 20th Century. But that has not stopped the mad rush to hog and secure credit for the Vedanta in the 21st Century as an enabler of quantum mechanics.

• Use subjective qualifiers like 'inspired', 'influenced' without explaining or specifying their context and how they help in the verification of a claim, yet in the end somehow arrive at an objective affirmative conclusion like in this case that the inspiration / influence of Upanishads 'resulted' in Quantum Mechanics. That is the quantum leap of Hindu nationalist rhetorical fallacy!!!

•  Making out a connection or a false correlation between two completely unrelated things (Upanishads and Quantum Mechanics) simply and solely on basis of arguments and opinions and dispensing with the need for terminological or rules comparison and other deductive and inferential tools or methods. 

I am not sure if that commenter had read  my response to his initial comparison between Vedanta and Quantum Mechanics and article link pointing to new findings in this field.

I do not claim to have a very good or satisfactory  understanding of Quantum physics or mechanics, but the methodology or approach that is followed in QM  is not different from the overall method and philosophy of science and investigation of natural phenomenon. And having some perspective and history of this field is not out of bounds for an informed person.

QM has an international span and is a highly collaborative effort involving countries and multiple research organizations. It is highly unlikely that QM research scientists (most of whom are likely non-theists) would be looking to the Upanishads or Vedanta for inspiration or guidance, let alone any actionable or specific principles of QM in them.

I really doubt that people like this commenter and their counterparts in the Hindu nationalist camp have any real information or perspective about concepts like Quantum Physics, subatomic phenomenon or modern cosmology (dark matter, energy etc,). But the eagerness to lump modern scientific knowledge with the primitive and barbaric theories of the Upanishads is not wanting at all.

After a point, this goes beyond even outrage and polemics.

It is a tragedy that we are still clinging to these cold and empty consolations of a mythical golden age where the ancient seers of the Vedas/Upanishads knew everything but did very little!!!. Is this meaningless exercise of retrofitting and revisionism getting India and Indians anywhere at all on the global scientific space?.  

With all the Upanishads and Vedanta what is the contribution of Indian scientists to the field of quantum physics or advanced research technologies?. Can N Gopalakishnan and his likes with all their Sanskrit retrofitting mastery add any value to modern science and research?. Other than giving useless lectures in IIT and writing worthless Astrological treatises, are they helping the science of India?

Other than stealing credit for Indian scriptures (this exercise will not work abroad) using questionable rhetoric and arguments and looking very intelligent and scholarly in the eyes of gullible masses, is this revisionism  providing any real benefit to our country and society?

If this commenter had made his statements in a Satsang or a spiritual study group, he would have won plaudits, but in a forum like this which takes science, reason and logic very seriously, this will only result in his diminished respectability and legitimacy as a commenter and debater.